Some of the major issues at stake (BBC Online http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6045182.stm):
1. The number of Armenians killed: Armenians say that 1.5 million had perished in the sands of Syria while the Turks say that only 300,000 died between 1915-1923.
2. Were the killings systematic? Many governments, historians and the Armenians believe that the massacres were part of an organized plot done by the Turkish government during WW1, however, Turkey contends that many Muslims died in the "turmoil of war" as well.
3. The trials after WW1 ended up with one Turkish official hanged and another thrown in jail, but the big 3 Young Turks tried "in absentia" - not present -since they had run away to Germany.
At least 20 countries around the world since this time period have passed resolutions to express sorrow and sympathy (Argentina, Belgium, Canada, France, Italy, Russia and Uruguay), held prayer days and have officially recognized the Armenian genocide, yet America hasn't. In 1984, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution that called for the President to recognize a National Day of Remembrance of Man's Inhumanity to Man with specific reference to the Armenian genocide. The day was April 24th, the day that the Turkish gov't. arrested 50 Armenian intellectuals and leaders who were then later executed - a day that the Armenians recognize as the offical start of the Armenian genocide.
In recent years, Turkey has denied the U.S. any use of its bases for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Also, Turkey has urged the U.S. gov't. to block a Congressional vote in 2007 that would recognize the Armenian genocide, and so the House Foreign Relations Committee stalled the bill.
Copy of the genocide map from the Armenian National Institute: http://www.armenian-genocide.org/map-full.html
36 comments:
Harrison Brode 3rd hour
I think that Turkey continues to deny responsibility for the genocide because Turkey doesnt want to admit that they did this terrible thing. Also they dont want to make this a big deal then it already is. If Turkey says that they did this, then they could have alot of enemies, like the Armenians and other countries. If I was the leader of Turkey then, I would have never had done this. If I was the leader of Turkey now, I would admit that we did this and assist any other country in any way I can. This would probaly make the countrys I help forgiving and make all of Europe a better place. I would also assist the U.S. in the war in the Middle East. It would end this war, including most of terrorism. It would also bring some of the economy up for Europe and especially for the U.S. If it ended the President, Barack Obama, would be able to send troops home, stop the payments of weapons, planes, troops etc. and make America a better place. If America's economy came back up, then we will be able to trade more, therefore making other countrys businesses or companys better. Also the President will start to pay back the debt we owe for the past wars we had.
I believe that Turkey still today does not want to take responsibility for the genocide because they fear that other countries would look at Turkey at a negative way. If I was the leader of my country I would not want people looking at my people in a hateful way. Turkey also does not want to have a really bad relationship with Armenians so that the countries that have paired up with Armenia don’t hate Turkey as well. In a way Turkey is scared to admit to the genocide because maybe they fear that it will spring larger events against their country. They could fear that the people in their country will no longer trust their government and could start revolts thus making Turkey fall apart. Nobody is going to stop pushing Turkey to tell them that they were part of the genocide, but if Turkey was smart they would live up to it.
Elliott Wolf
1st hour
Turkey probably continues to deny responsbility for the genocide because of how much other countries thought this was bad. It was very inhumane to man.Since turkey also blocked the congressional vote that would recogonize the Armenian genocide, it seems as if Turkey is trying to hide the past as if nothing ever happened. But it did, and yet it still will not take responsibility. Apperently they are blaming World War I as the cause, saying that many armenians died but also many Turks, They just dont want to admit that they killed the Armenians off and Turkey is trying to desensitize this issue. So in this case, i think Turkey is denying responsiblilty of the Armenian genocide bacuse they are scared that they will gain more enemies and other countries will hate them for it. I think that they will keep denying responsibilty and hope that someday their tracks will be covered and hope that everyong will forget about what happened. Jithmi
1st hour
I think that Turkey continues to deny responsibility for the genocide because the Turkish people are ashamed of this act of terror, as they should be. The majority of Turkish people are of muslim descent. This being true, Turkey does not want to admit responsibility for this genocide because they don’t want to ruin the image of muslim people. They do not want the Muslims to be perceived as bad people. Also, Turks most likely have knowledge of the Holocaust. Meaning, they probably know that some Jewish families and/or survivors of the Holocaust have filed claims and sued the German government for their losses and troubles. Turkey does not want this happening because it may lead to many problems for Turkey. Similar to Turkey, a few German people through out history have denied the Holocaust of happening, just like the Turks deny the Armenian Genocide. I believe the Turks are wrong for their denial of this awful event.
_Brett Schwartz_
1st Hour
I think the Turkish would continue to deny the responsibility for the genocide because they don’t want to look bad. I think they must feel like If they say it was their fault, they’ll be hated more. Really, it’s the opposite. It shows a lot better character to own up to what you did. Instead, The Turkish are pretending the situation was not as bad as it is. They decline that there was ever a “systematic attempt to destroy the Christian Armenian people” (BBC News). This happened in 1915, so about 95 years ago. Most people involved probably aren’t even alive anymore, so for the Turkish to still deny it is ridiculous. They should just admit that members of their past made a huge mistake and recognize that. By not owning up to that, it makes people wonder if they really feel it was bad, or if they would ever try something like that in the future. If they stop denying what happened, I don’t think people would be questioning the Turkish anymore and would have more respect for them. There are many assumptions that can be made because the Turkish are still denying the Armenian genocide, and I think if they officially recognized it as genocide it would be much better.
Lizzie Davidson
3rd Hour
Autumne Parker
1st hour
1/24/10
I think Turkey continued to deny the responsibility for the Armenian genocide because quite frankly, the fact that something as terrible as this happened is an embarrassment. No one wants to admit to something bad that they’ve done, whether it is small or big. I believe it’s the same in this situation. Also, a lot of countries do recognize that the genocide happened. If Turkey finally took responsibility, then I think that would ruin a lot of relationships they have with other countries. Since the Armenians have their own country, I think that would cause a more tension between the countries. In addition, I think the U.S. has a lot to do with the fact that they won’t take responsibility. The U.S. is one of the most influential countries in the world, and if they don’t recognize the genocide, then I don’t think Turkey feels as if they should admit it.
Andrea Kelly
3rd hour
I think turkey continues to deny responsibility for the genocide because they had something to do with it and want to keep that secret. I think the Turkish government organized the genocide and doesn’t want other countries to find out because they might loose any respect or alliances from other countries. I think if they were to admit it now as opposed to back then they might have less hate from other countries because there were different people in charge back then. At the same time though, they would receive a lot of questions from other countries as to why they waited such a long time to admit it and why they were admitting it now. But I think admitting it now might be slightly easier than admitting it back then because it was so long ago and the initial shock would probably be less. They really have no reason to continue denying it.
I feel that the Turkish does not want to admit that they have responsibility for the Armenian genocide because they are embarrassed of what they did. It was a terrible situation and anyone would be ashamed of his or her actions. The Turkish are smart enough to know that people will view them badly and so they try to reduce that by denying the genocide. Even if they have noticed that they have made the wrong decision, they know that it is too late to go back now. If they did go back, people would look at them even worse. If they foolishly did it, it would be proven that they have been lying for many, many decades. This will cause them to have no support from other countries and make them look very bad. Whereas now, although people know that they are lying and that it has been proven from researches, they are doing alright and they won’t want to change that.
Nona Campbell
David Bellefleur- The Turkish people do want to admit this because in present day, like the germans and their crimes against humanity, they are in a state of denial because they can't grasp that their own people could have so much hate. The Turks also want to use the war has a backup, saying they should not be responsible because they think it is an outcome of WW1. The Turks also want the past to be past, by recent years like urging the U.S. to block congressional votes to recognize the Armenian genocide because they don't want to bring it up. The Turks want to keep their allies and by making the genocide a big deal now, they could lose some even though they refuse to help allies like the u.s. during the Iraq war. By recognizing the genocide as a holiday to remember the terribel things, it would only shed light on it to make Turkey look even worse because they have not given up and said they were responsible. There is too much evidence and it is much too clear for the Turks and all of Turkey to keep denying their responsibility, they don't even have a good cover up.
The Turks continue to deny responsibility for the genocide because if they acknowledged the genocide, then it would become an official historic date. The genocide would be seen as a crime and people would need to be punished. How would we do that now almost 100 years later? Most of the people who killed the Armenians are now dead themselves. The punishment would have to include financial payments to the families affected. And, you can not put real values on the lives lost.
At that time, the U.S was not really on the good side with that part of the world. Turks who were caught punishing Armenians were allowed to hide in Germany. In this era, the Germans were staging or getting ready to have their own genocide against the Jews.
Also, the Turks were trying to move or eliminate the Armenians for political and power reasons in Turkey only. This type of struggle has happened and continues to happen in many places in the world. The method of taking over land needs to be debated (certainly killing people isn’t right). But, how do you take over? And, who do you side with? Ultimately, who has or owns the right to the land?
Laura S
3rd hour
I think Turkey continues to deny the Armenian genocide because they’re not happy about the stuff they did. After the war, they denied it for so many years. If they admit to it now, people will want to know why they hid it for so long, and they’d lose allies. They think that they have to keep it a national secret because it’s been so many years of denial already, they can’t change their position now. The United States didn’t want to confront them about it at the time it happened because they were focused on being neutral. When other countries recognized the genocide, and prayed, the U.S. didn’t because we had an air base there, and Turkey was one of our allies in the Middle East. Recently, Turkey has been denying use of the bases for the war at hand, and they stopped a vote that would recognize the Armenian genocide. Turkey could also be trying to save face. Talat, the Interior Minister at the time of the genocide, had bragged about the deportation of Armenians. Turkey wants people to just forget about the issue because they don’t want to look back on how bad it actually was.
Larry Geist
3rd Hour
I think that Turkey continues to deny that they committed a genocide of 1.5 million Armenians because it was just such a terrible thing that they did that they don’t want to have to admit that they did it themselves. It was long enough ago that a lot of people don’t know what it was or are really worried about it anymore so Turkey is probably thinking that it is better to keep it hush hush and hopefully everyone will forget about it. In 2007 the US tried to pass a congressional vote to recognize the genocide but Turkey tried to convince the US to block the vote and because they did that the bill has been stalled. So until another country brings the issue of the Armenian genocide or something like that, Turkey is getting its way in getting everyone to forget about it and let it pass.
-Eli Jensen
Turkey denies responsibility for the genocide because they don't want negative publicity or any negativity towards their country. It was a terrible thing and obviously no body wants to be held responsible for that. Anyone with any sort of alliance with the Armenians would probably not like to visit Turkey because it is just threatening and they do not have good feelings for them. It is the same as how the Jews and the German people are towards each other. Everyone knows the Holocaust happened and those people who deny it are just making progress between the two worse. Since there are so many countries that are taking sides against Turkey, obviously they don't want to admit it. Having at least 20 countries against them is just not good. All, or any of these countries could easily overtake them. They assume that it will blow over but by denying this responsibility will only make the situation worse. They should just admit to it and make some sort of gesture and then some day gain peace.
Caileigh Papp
3rd Period
Alesha Lewis
History/1
1-24-10
I think Turkey is denying responsibility for the Armenian genocide because they thought of the Armenians as threats, and spies so their reason for making a majority of them “disappear” was for the safety of Turkey. They also have the “it’s our word against your word” affect. As for example the Armenian say 1.5 millions “had perished in the sands of Syria” but the Turkish argue a more less of 300,000 died between 1915- 1923. So they could argue that only 37,500 dead Armenian per year instead of 1875000 dead Armenian over the eight year period. And the fact that the Turks can say many Armenians died in the WWI could also be a fact everyone could take in consideration. In war people die, people get lost and sometimes aren’t accounted for, so these are both good reasons the Turkish government, and people can as a cover to say the genocide never happened.
I think Turkey would continue to deny responsibility for the genocide because they don’t want to take responsibility of such a horrible crime. I think that the Turks don’t want to be responsible for the deaths of the 1.5 million deaths of the Armenians. Also, because of the Turks being Muslim and the Armenians being Christian, I think that the Turks don’t want to give the Muslim people a bad name. I also think they deny the genocide because every year, on April 24th, there is a day that is mostly intended for the Armenian genocide. This day occurs in at least 20 different countries. Some of the countries also hold prayer days that are just for the Armenians. The people of Turkey might also deny the massacres being part of an organized plan because this would make them look like they are trying to go around and kill all of the Christians. If I were a person who lives in Turkey, I would also deny the genocide.
Nicholas Kizy
1st Hour
I think Turkey denies responsibility for the genocide because of what a terrible thing it was. If they actually admitted to it, then it could cause many issues between Turkey and other countries. Other countries that are presently involved with Turkey would judge it and the people based on previous actions and possibly wouldn't want anything to do with Turkey, like trading or helping out in the future. The Turkish people know that this lack of help and support would cause their country to greatly decline. If the country declined, they would need help and they know that they wouldn't get it. Besides other issues that could form, Turkey probably feels ashamed for what they did. The people that currently live in Turkey are embarrassed for something that they weren't even a part of and don't want to be punished for that. So they feel that if they don't own up to what they did, they can avoid the punishment that was never given.
Emily Honet
1st hour
Turkey continues to deny responsibility for the Armenian genocide because they may feel that they have nothing to gain my admitting it. In fact, Turkey continues to have powers of persuasion over the United States. In 1984, and again in 2007, attempts within the United States government to recognize the Armenian genocide have failed. Turkey is going to continue to downplay its role in the mass execution for as long as they can get away with it. They should do the right thing and take responsibility for what they did for the sake of the victims and their families. But if they admit that they lied all these years, they could lose respect and any political power that they may have. Turkey’s allies may even turn against them, as they could not be trusted. Meanwhile, the rest of the world continues to disagree over what really happened. Turkey has no reason to admit what they did.
Austin Lessnau
1st hour
Turkey Continues to deny the Armenian genocide because they don’t want to be remembered as people like the Nazis or Hitler. Killing millions of people does not go well with many countries, so the Turks also deny the responsibility so they can continue to trade with each other. Also they want technology to be shared so they can advance in the technological world. They want to continue to trade by trying to persuade governments to block all the press about Armenian. Currently about 20 countries recognize this horrible genocide and want to deal with it. Amazingly America took a long time to realize what happened to the Armenians. Even after we were told it took some time to actually do something about it. America didn’t want to be involved during the Genocide because most of the funds were being used in the election in 1916. President Wilson was also the cause of avoiding this Armenian massacre.
-Eric Chan
I think that Turkey denies that they ever attempted to destroy the Armenians because they don’t want to be viewed badly by other countries for what they did. They killed millions of Armenians, and frankly, not many people would want to be known for that, but they did it, and don’t want to take the blame for it. By denying it, and blaming this mass killing on WW1, other crimes, and the Armenians themselves, they don’t get viewed as a bad country, and the leaders that caused the genocide don’t (or didn’t, now) get killed or thrown in jail (most of them anyways). Plus, it’s very easy for them to use the excuse of WW1, so why wouldn’t they? By stating that Armenians lived near war sites, the Turks don’t get blamed- the war is blamed. And, not many can tell where the Armenians lived, so the Turks get away with blaming others for their mistakes.
*Reanna Kathawa, 3rd hour.
Lauren Johnson
1st hour World History
The Armenian genocide in Turkey is something that happened even if the Turkish government wants to own up to the situation. It happened. So since it did occur why would they possibly still feel the need too deny all claims that the event is real and very much so an issue. I personally think that Turkey wants to look perfect and shameless. If a country were to go out and decide to kill out a race that they thought was a defect or a problem within in that country they would not want the rest of the world to know about it. To keep their image clean they would just deny all accusations of the matter and pretend like nothing ever happened. In a way that is brainwashing the people in that country, because a major event occurred in their history and they know nothing what so ever about it. I don’t think that the Turkish people will ever own up to the event, and why should they. If it’s a situation where a group of people or a country looked like monsters, and they have the chance to deny it they most likely would. So they real issue is not why they own up to it but why did the Turkish rulers feel the need to wipe out a whole people when they could have just left them alone.
Jacob Seid
I think that turkey denies genocide because of the way they want to be viewed by others. If they admitted to it then they would be looked down upon by other countries like how Germany is looked down upon. If I was a leader I would feel as if I had failed my country, even though I do not like to lie. Turkey does not want to be looked down upon because their negative image will have an effect on their relations with the Armenians. Admitting to genocide will cause problems so big, that turkey will not be able to handle itself. This will further increase the dislike others show to turkey and its government. If Turkey had come out with this information, the results may have been better because it would allow them to improve upon themselves like the Germans have with the Jews (by providing services such as Mercedes cars as taxis in Israel) after the holocaust.
Kelly G
I think that Turkey continues to deny the genocide ever happened because they are ashamed of what they did. If they admitted to what their people did, they would lose a lot of respect from the other countries. But really, they already have lost respect because now there is proof, and everyone knows that Turkey is lying. I think Turkey even knows that genocide happened, but it’s too late for them to go back and say that it did happen. If they did, they would be admitting they lied, and then no country would trust them. I think they should have just admitted their mistake in the beginning. It is very foolish for them to be denying it, because no one that was involved in the genocide is alive today. But once again, if they came out and admitted it happened, they would also be admitting that they lied.
Turkey continues to deny responsibility for the genocide because they didn’t want to have the reputation of killing a bunch of people for stupid reasons. Admitting to the killings of all of the Armenians would probably lead to more violence and troubles in the future. If people already know they were a big part of the genocide I don’t get why it matters if turkey admits it or not to other people, but I see why it matters to them. They should admit to it, make it up by paying the other countries or doing them some sort of favor so there not still known for that and still known for not doing anything about it, and known for not admitting to it. Also other countries would be pretty pissed off at them because they have not admitted to it for a bunch of time.
Nico H
I think Turkey would continue to deny responsibility for the genocide because of how horrible it was. There were about 1.5 million Armenian deaths and the for sure don’t want the responsibility of that. The Turks may also deny the genocide because every year on April 24th, there is a day intended for the Armenian genocide. More than 20 countries celebrate this day. Some people and some certain countries hole prayers for the Armenians. The people of Turkey could also deny the massacres being planned or organized because it would make people think that they would just go around killing all of the Christians. This would also give their Muslim religion a bad name and they don’t want that at all. In think the Turks are smart for denying the genocide and I would also do the same because it could show that they care about their country and religion.
The Armenian Genocide is one of the many horrific events that occurred throughout the 1900s. Beginning in 1915, the systematic killing of all Armenians in Turkey is remembered as an event that, although overshadowed by the holocaust, shocked the world with it’s pure brutality. To this day, however, the Turkish Government denies all claims of this happening. Why is this? In my opinion, the Turkish Government is denying this happened because they are ashamed of what the rest of the world would think if they accepted it. I feel that they regret the decisions they have made in the past, but are afraid to swallow their pride and face the facts.
Ryan S.
Karen De la Rosa
3rd hour
Turkey continues to deny the responsibility for the genocide because they are afraid of what other countries might think, since this was bad and inhuman. It seems that Turkey is trying to hide the past, by doing things like blocking the congressional vote, that could recognize the genocide. They are blaming World War I and the turmoil of war where many Armenians and Muslims died. Many think that it was a plot done by the Turkish during World War I against the Armenians, but they keep on denying it. The Turks keep on denying this because they are afraid of losing their allies, and that the countries that have a greater power, could become their enemy, they also don’t want to admitted because they are embarrassed of what they did in the past, and by denying it people won’t look at them badly. I think that they should just admitted it, and it was done in the past, so people now cant do much but to be angry for a while.
Emily A.
1st Period
I think there are many reasons why the Turkish government would continue to deny their responsibility for the Armenian genocide. First, by taking responsibility for a mass killing of a group of people, regardless of whether they had any hostile actions against the Turkish government or its people, is to admit to an act that the rest of the world will most surely disapprove of. The Turkish government has displayed its arrogance in the past and a country with that kind of arrogance does not easily admit to having made such a big mistake. Secondly, it seems that the Turkish government still believes that they are better than the Christians, specifically the Armenians. Just like the KKK in the United States still exists, there is a basic misconception that they are superior to another group and have a right to commit violence. I think it will take multiple generations to move the Turkish population away from their prejudice against the Armenians. Until this is done, I think that it will be impossible for them to admit their guilt.
I think Turkish government would deny the responsibility for the genocide because they hate the Armenians. They are the ones that started the genocide in the first place anyway. The Turkish have been killing the Armenians, they have even made an alliance with Germany, and with Austria called the German-Austrian-Turkish alliance. If someone were to kill someone they would not want to take responsibility for the body, that’s the same reason why Turkey did not want to take responsibility, because they hate them. So that is why I think the Turkish didn’t want to take responsibility for the genocide.
Kris 1st hour
Blog #12: so, why would turkey continue to deny responsibility for the genocide?
I think that Turkey is continuing to deny responsibility for the Armenian genocide because they don’t want to go to war about it. The Turkish people say that the number of Armenian deaths was inflated and that other Turkish people died to. I think that the Turkish people that died were only killed in self defense from some of the Armenian. They Turkish also deny responsibility because they know what they did was wrong and they don’t want a negative impact on their country. That’s why they urged the U.S government to block a congressional vote in 2007 so that no one would recognize what a terrible thing they had done. Those are some reasons that I think the Turkish people want to keep the Armenian genocide a secerate and keep denying that they did such a bad thing.
Dylon Tyldeley
I think Turkey would continue to deny responsibility for the genocide because of how horrible it was. There were about 1.5 million Armenian deaths and the for sure don’t want the responsibility of that. The Turks may also deny the genocide because every year on April 24th, there is a day intended for the Armenian genocide. More than 20 countries celebrate this day. Some people and some certain countries hole prayers for the Armenians. The people of Turkey could also deny the massacres being planned or organized because it would make people think that they would just go around killing all of the Christians. This would also give their Muslim religion a bad name and they don’t want that at all. In think the Turks are smart for denying the genocide and I would also do the same because it could show that they care about their country and religion.
Andrew Samosiuk
3rd Hour
Malik banks
Blog 12
I don’t know why Turkey might continue to deny responsibility for the genocide because they honestly might not think that it’s their fault. Turkey could think in some way that all those things were not their fault. Or maybe they don’t want to take responsibility for the genocide since it was a really big deal. They probably don’t want to be blamed for the genocide. It could be allot of reasons why they don’t want to take responsibility for the genocide. I don’t think no one knows the real reason except turkey but it needs to be figured out.
Blog 12
Turkey still continues to deny responsibility for the Armenian genocide; this may be for many reasons. One may be because they are now guilty about what they have done and they now realize how wrong they were to kill that many people for almost no reason and they are embarrassed to admit it. Or they still think that killing all those people was the right thing to do for the country, it people and the area and they don’t want to sound like terrible people and possibly get shut out by other countries. Another thing may be that they do want to confess to it but they are worried that people may sue, ask for money, remembrance days or other things of that nature. This may also create new enemies for Turkey.
Drew White
3rd hour
I think Turkey would continue to deny responsibility for the genocide because of how horrible it was. There were about 1.5 million Armenian deaths and the for sure don’t want the responsibility of that. The Turks may also deny the genocide because every year on April 24th, there is a day intended for the Armenian genocide. More than 20 countries celebrate this day. Some people and some certain countries hole prayers for the Armenians. The people of Turkey could also deny the massacres being planned or organized because it would make people think that they would just go around killing all of the Christians. This would also give their Muslim religion a bad name and they don’t want that at all. In think the Turks are smart for denying the genocide and I would also do the same because it could show that they care about their country and religion.
~sierra barnes~
forgot to put my name on it
Turkey was deciding to deny that it was their responsibility for the Genocide because if they did as I say fess up and admit to starting the Genocide they would have been consequences. Turkey felt the need to not say it was their fault, they could have thought that if they did tell all their allies they had with countries would disappear because the country may not feel they could trust turkey because turkey was the reason the A. genocide had begun. Genocide is a terrible thing and I don’t want any more genocide to happen even though I know that they will continue happening.
Rachel S.
I think Turkey isn’t admitting to the Armenian genocide because of pride. We know it happened, the Armenians know it, the rest of the world knows it, and Turkey knows it. But giving into the press and whispers that have been going on would be completely backing down and showing their flaw. There’s string of shame and guilt that goes along with publicly recognizing what they did. Not only would recognition have to happen, but the public would be expecting an apology, and I think that isn’t something Turkey is willing to do. Their pride is blinding them and isn’t allowing them to see and reflect on what they’ve done. They think they can just keep going on as they are: not acknowledging their wrong doings and ignoring them. Eventually though, it will be too much pressure and they will have to give in and accept what they’ve done. I think if they would at least tell the public “hey, I know what I did, and it was wrong”, everyone could sleep better at night. But until then, their will always be an elephant in the room.
Maddie Perfitt
1st hour
Turkey denide the genocied because that wanted to make it seem like they are a good country looking for peace. even though they got proof of the genoiced turkey denies it and that say they had nothing to do with the dead armenians. Some poeple belive the turk and some belive the armenians. me in my point of view belive the armenians because they got more proof then they needed to be true
~Anthony Lossia~
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